@ revolving door: Apple can do anything they want...whether we think its ethical or not. They have only one thing they are concerned about...making money for shareholders.
BTW: Corporations are dictatorships in every sense of the term. They answer to no one but themselves. There is nothing democratic about them.
EDIT: @Butterbean... Gendai will have to answer us as to whether or not they are 100% compliant to the API and compiling standards. They are the only ones that know what is in the "black box/salad shooter" on their server.
Apple is right because: Their platform would be held to ransom by adobe, which they have done in the past. This good because : It protects a device that is hugely popular, and for many exactly how computers should be
Example : iPhone OS 4 now supports multi-tasking, cool great for everyone. Had they allowed flash apps, multi-tasking would? break? crash?. unhappy consumers, !@#$% experiences. Its not just multi-tasking a whole load of features would be disabled by flash apps. Now you are powerless to use the device you bought properly, and Apple can't help because flash has hijacked your phone, software, and future development. They didn't even pay you for the privilege.
If you like software conflicts then you know what you should be developing for. Remember we're talking about protecting consumer devices that are designed for specific purposes, not PCs.
>> personally I do not see how Gendai >> Games is making any money at all >> of this? at $99? >> - guru-at-zidware
I was thinking the same thing. There doesn't seem to be a lot of developers here... maybe like 2-3 dozen serious developers. Even if 200 developers have a GameSalad Express license, that's only $19,800... barely enough to pay for one part-time developer.
Yet, considering the way this website is set up, it seems to be more about hosting the games. A site with 1000 decent web games could attract a decent amount of visitors. Such traffic could be profitable. Although, that might be a problem for developers who want to do the same thing with their websites.
It's fun to speculate, but that's not going to finish my next app! Heh... I should avoid this thread if I want to get work done.
I think it would be nice for GS devs to tell us how they compile all behind the scenes and/or what are they doing at the moment to try to be compliant...just a hint...not full details will suffice IMO ;~)
>> That kinda goes the same for >> every other engine out there. >> Granted there will be a CS5 >> for Windows, but you need >> Apple every step of the way >> if you want to publish an app. >> - BeyondtheTech
I think it's different if a software development platform can simply export from Windows to an iPhone app. When you have a team of developers, that means only one Mac would be needed. Is it enough for Apple to go Chernobyl on Adobe? I don't think so. That's why I'm a little surprised this happened. There are thousands of Flash games out there. If they could be converted, that's a huge surge of money for Apple. CS5 doesn't have Android support either... at least not yet. So, why not use this opportunity to make friends and make more money? I think it's a risky move by Apple.
I was having a PC problem last week. I was thinking about picking up a cross-platform upgrade of the Creative Suite and ditching my PC. I was figuring if I could make iPhone games with Flash, I had a good enough reason to upgrade. But with the confusion I'm seeing now, I'm glad that I fixed my PC.
@Syn: "Apple can do anything they want...whether we think its ethical or not. They have only one thing they are concerned about...making money for shareholders.
BTW: Corporations are dictatorships in every sense of the term. They answer to no one but themselves. There is nothing democratic about them."
If they answer to no-one but themselves, why is their only concern making money for shareholders???
I for one would love if Apple enveloped GS. Logic became great after Apple bought it. Imagine if the GS developers had more time and much less limited resources to make the engine fly (maybe they have full time jobs so GS is just a little extra income for them..) . 3d would be around the corner instead of a year away... and imagine if a bunch of developers switched to iGameSalad... then it would be based on the the games merits alone.... Ahh dreaming is nice.
As for making GS for the iPad... cool idea. After using some of the iPad Aps I think it is possible to do (getting the assets on to the iPad might be a problem... maybe). It might also be a win win for the iMac users. If they could shrink it down and rewrite the code to work on iPad it would FLY on an iMac.
@QS Apple IS its shareholders...That is why its a corporation. They are one in the same. Shareholders are only concerned about making money...and vote on who is in charge of doing that. The corporation as an entity IS the dictatorship...and are only looking to do what is best for themselves. The public (unless you are a shareholder) has no say in it and all of the petitions and protesting isn't going to impact them at all in deciding how they formulate their business plan.
And the shareholders really don't have much control either...unless they are a MAJOR shareholder and they have a few million shares...and their actual vote is amplified as such...which is why Warren Buffet is so powerful in so many corporations...some argue more powerful than the CEOs themselves in some cases.
If you are still confused...tune into CNBC for a month or get a subscription to WSJ.
Unfortunately no matter what we find on the apple website dedicated to Game Salad, it may not matter. It builds games for the web and Mac OSX. I doubt apple will pick favourites and have exceptions.
We'll just have to wait and see, for now I am deeply learning Objective -C. I have spent $130+ on books and about $35 on my code teacher.
My point was...you have to be a shareholder to have a say in what the company does...via a vote...and generally all you can vote on is the CEO and the Board of Directors.
If you own shares of Microsoft...then you have a small say in how Microsoft operates...by voting who runs the company. But if you own 10 shares and Warren Buffet owns 10,000,000 shares...he will have MORE say than you in what happens.
I suggested watching CNBC as after about a month...you get a lot of insight on how Wall Street blue chips think.
Guys, I hope I'm not giving anybody the wrong idea here, because I do like a lot of what Apple has done, and I love GameSalad.
But this TOS change is really going to hurt both developers and consumers, big time.
Look at it this way: Some of us (not to mention Unity folks, etc) have spent money to buy the hardware and software needed to develop on the iPhone with a third-party tool. That includes myself. I just got a Macbook so that I could try developing games for the iPhone using GameSalad.
If Steve Jobs broke into my house the other night and altered the software that I own manually, preventing me from using GameSalad as I intended, I could press charges. Instead, Apple changed their TOS, but the result is *exactly the same.* Something I paid for is now, as far as I'm concerned, broken. Apple has destroyed something I paid for and expected a return from.
Lawmakers are notoriously slow, and slower still when it comes to laws dealing with technology. Until laws protecting people from such damages exist, it falls to the consumer to pressure companies to behave in a fair way. There are a lot of people around the web pointing out how wrong 4.0 is. If you don't want big companies to be able to walk all over you, I suggest you add your voice to theirs.
By the way, anyone who claims that Apple is doing this to promote quality software on their platform is welcome to take a look at this gem: http://appshopper.com/games/ballgame-2 All the games this company has turned out, combined, aren't worth a penny. They were all approved. How could anybody think that a blanket rule is going to result in the production of quality software? That's not going to happen until Apple dedicates itself to evaluating every app store candidate properly.
I specially like this user comment...hope is true and GS is not 'hacking cocoa touch api' to compile our games.
"It might be against 3.3.2, but 3.3.1 doesn't affect using Lua in games for internal game logic. I quote "and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs". What Apple doesn't want is for you to write an application in Lua, that goes through a middle process so that it calls Cocoa Touch APIs directly. Using Lua as the glue between pieces of code in the game wouldn't directly call their APIs so it would pass 3.3.1."
If not, carry on with the free tool till something concrete is said. I'm sure it'll be fine, and hey, it's your money, but I'd take a deep breath and wait a few days
Couldn't you publish it as a Mac game? I've never tried publishing for the Mac with GS, but I'm assuming you wouldn't need Apple's permission as it has nothing to do with the app store.
Could be wrong though!
QS
Edit: and I guess that applies to everyone really - FMG was doing that before iPhone stuff, wasn't he?
Double edit: A somewhat reassuring yellow post on this thread's subject matter here:
Comments
Apple can do anything they want...whether we think its ethical or not. They have only one thing they are concerned about...making money for shareholders.
BTW: Corporations are dictatorships in every sense of the term. They answer to no one but themselves. There is nothing democratic about them.
EDIT:
@Butterbean...
Gendai will have to answer us as to whether or not they are 100% compliant to the API and compiling standards. They are the only ones that know what is in the "black box/salad shooter" on their server.
Apple is right because: Their platform would be held to ransom by adobe, which they have done in the past.
This good because : It protects a device that is hugely popular, and for many exactly how computers should be
Example : iPhone OS 4 now supports multi-tasking, cool great for everyone. Had they allowed flash apps, multi-tasking would? break? crash?. unhappy consumers, !@#$% experiences. Its not just multi-tasking a whole load of features would be disabled by flash apps. Now you are powerless to use the device you bought properly, and Apple can't help because flash has hijacked your phone, software, and future development. They didn't even pay you for the privilege.
If you like software conflicts then you know what you should be developing for. Remember we're talking about protecting consumer devices that are designed for specific purposes, not PCs.
>> Games is making any money at all
>> of this? at $99?
>> - guru-at-zidware
I was thinking the same thing. There doesn't seem to be a lot of developers here... maybe like 2-3 dozen serious developers. Even if 200 developers have a GameSalad Express license, that's only $19,800... barely enough to pay for one part-time developer.
Yet, considering the way this website is set up, it seems to be more about hosting the games. A site with 1000 decent web games could attract a decent amount of visitors. Such traffic could be profitable. Although, that might be a problem for developers who want to do the same thing with their websites.
It's fun to speculate, but that's not going to finish my next app! Heh... I should avoid this thread if I want to get work done.
now about that Lua thing...hmmmm...
I think it would be nice for GS devs to tell us how they compile all behind the scenes and/or what are they doing at the moment to try to be compliant...just a hint...not full details will suffice IMO ;~)
>> every other engine out there.
>> Granted there will be a CS5
>> for Windows, but you need
>> Apple every step of the way
>> if you want to publish an app.
>> - BeyondtheTech
I think it's different if a software development platform can simply export from Windows to an iPhone app. When you have a team of developers, that means only one Mac would be needed. Is it enough for Apple to go Chernobyl on Adobe? I don't think so. That's why I'm a little surprised this happened. There are thousands of Flash games out there. If they could be converted, that's a huge surge of money for Apple. CS5 doesn't have Android support either... at least not yet. So, why not use this opportunity to make friends and make more money? I think it's a risky move by Apple.
I was having a PC problem last week. I was thinking about picking up a cross-platform upgrade of the Creative Suite and ditching my PC. I was figuring if I could make iPhone games with Flash, I had a good enough reason to upgrade. But with the confusion I'm seeing now, I'm glad that I fixed my PC.
"Apple can do anything they want...whether we think its ethical or not. They have only one thing they are concerned about...making money for shareholders.
BTW: Corporations are dictatorships in every sense of the term. They answer to no one but themselves. There is nothing democratic about them."
If they answer to no-one but themselves, why is their only concern making money for shareholders???
Dude, sometimes you really confuse me!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Once this sucker becomes self-aware we're all screwed.
Beware the big mamoo.
As for making GS for the iPad... cool idea. After using some of the iPad Aps I think it is possible to do (getting the assets on to the iPad might be a problem... maybe). It might also be a win win for the iMac users. If they could shrink it down and rewrite the code to work on iPad it would FLY on an iMac.
Apple IS its shareholders...That is why its a corporation. They are one in the same. Shareholders are only concerned about making money...and vote on who is in charge of doing that. The corporation as an entity IS the dictatorship...and are only looking to do what is best for themselves. The public (unless you are a shareholder) has no say in it and all of the petitions and protesting isn't going to impact them at all in deciding how they formulate their business plan.
And the shareholders really don't have much control either...unless they are a MAJOR shareholder and they have a few million shares...and their actual vote is amplified as such...which is why Warren Buffet is so powerful in so many corporations...some argue more powerful than the CEOs themselves in some cases.
If you are still confused...tune into CNBC for a month or get a subscription to WSJ.
We'll just have to wait and see, for now I am deeply learning Objective -C. I have spent $130+ on books and about $35 on my code teacher.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you had to be part of a company to be a shareholder.
I have a few Microsoft stocks lying around somewhere... and I haven't worked for them in years...
Still, I bow to your CNBC credentials.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Stop being a dickhead...its not pleasant.
My point was...you have to be a shareholder to have a say in what the company does...via a vote...and generally all you can vote on is the CEO and the Board of Directors.
If you own shares of Microsoft...then you have a small say in how Microsoft operates...by voting who runs the company. But if you own 10 shares and Warren Buffet owns 10,000,000 shares...he will have MORE say than you in what happens.
I suggested watching CNBC as after about a month...you get a lot of insight on how Wall Street blue chips think.
But this TOS change is really going to hurt both developers and consumers, big time.
Look at it this way: Some of us (not to mention Unity folks, etc) have spent money to buy the hardware and software needed to develop on the iPhone with a third-party tool. That includes myself. I just got a Macbook so that I could try developing games for the iPhone using GameSalad.
If Steve Jobs broke into my house the other night and altered the software that I own manually, preventing me from using GameSalad as I intended, I could press charges. Instead, Apple changed their TOS, but the result is *exactly the same.* Something I paid for is now, as far as I'm concerned, broken. Apple has destroyed something I paid for and expected a return from.
Lawmakers are notoriously slow, and slower still when it comes to laws dealing with technology. Until laws protecting people from such damages exist, it falls to the consumer to pressure companies to behave in a fair way. There are a lot of people around the web pointing out how wrong 4.0 is. If you don't want big companies to be able to walk all over you, I suggest you add your voice to theirs.
I was actually being genuine. My knowledge of these matters is sketchy at best to be honest.
But I'll take up your challenge and stop being a dickhead, sir.
Soon as you do.
QS
EDIT @ Eastbound & MrFunk - there's a tv show in there somewhere for sure! Maybe even the germs of a game idea
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I still have hope and continue seeing light at the end of the tunnel: http://www.devwhy.com/blog/2010/4/12/its-all-about-the-framework.html
I specially like this user comment...hope is true and GS is not 'hacking cocoa touch api' to compile our games.
"It might be against 3.3.2, but 3.3.1 doesn't affect using Lua in games for internal game logic. I quote "and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs". What Apple doesn't want is for you to write an application in Lua, that goes through a middle process so that it calls Cocoa Touch APIs directly. Using Lua as the glue between pieces of code in the game wouldn't directly call their APIs so it would pass 3.3.1."
Syn - if you want to discuss this any further, feel free to email me so as to take it off the forums - quantumsheepinfo at googlemail dot com
If not -- no worries.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
If not, carry on with the free tool till something concrete is said. I'm sure it'll be fine, and hey, it's your money, but I'd take a deep breath and wait a few days
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Could be wrong though!
QS
Edit: and I guess that applies to everyone really - FMG was doing that before iPhone stuff, wasn't he?
Double edit: A somewhat reassuring yellow post on this thread's subject matter here:
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=5498
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
We now return you to your regularly scheduled "TSHIRTBOOTH, HELP!!!" posts.